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Interview/Debate between
Bob Enyart & Wayne Besen
on Homosexuality

[COMMENT:  Go to http://kgov.com/bel/20090108 for summary, or to Bob Enyart Live at http://kgov.com/ for audio of full discussion.  

Wayne Besen, founding executive of Truth Wins Out (TWO), has a website at http://www.truthwinsout.org/ where he defends the homosexual lifestyle. 

I am scheduled (tentatively) to debate Besen live on KDAR on the same subject Sunday evening, January 25, 2009 beginning at (time to be announced).     E. Fox]

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen, director of the pro-homosexual Truth Wins Out, denied that any child sexual molestation could even theoretically be of a homosexual nature. Bob Enyart explained that many male child molesters hurt only girls, and many female molesters hurt only boys, and that these people are heterosexual child molesters. Likewise, while there are adult bisexuals, there are also bi-sexual child molesters. And male molesters who only rape boys are homosexual child molesters and females who only molest girls are lesbian molesters. Wayne Besen denied this. T.W.O.'s director seemed completely uninterested in statistics regarding male on male and female on female child molestation occurring at rates that far exceed the percentage of homosexuals in society, which provide evidence of greater risk to children from homosexual adults.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen, T.W.O. director, denied the greater health risk of homosexual sex. Enyart explained that unlike heterosexual intercourse, rectal intercourse is the best way to spread hepatitis B, HIV, syphilis and other blood-borne diseases. As Christians frequently warn, "Because the rectal wall is so thin (a single cell)... sperm readily penetrate the rectal wall, causing great risk of disease, and tearing or bruising of the anal wall is common during homosexual sex, and then feces and other germs gain almost direct access to the blood stream." Besen denied all of this.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen was asked about the difference between women long claiming that lesbianism is a lifestyle choice, and homosexuals claiming that they were born that way. Homosexual behavior is far more anonymous and promiscuous than either heterosexual or lesbian behavior because of the different sex drives that God put into us when He made us male and female. Women, unless our culture robs them of self-respect, innately hope for a commitment before agreeing to sex, whereas men need only a place. Even though he admitted to Enyart that male homosexuals are more promiscuous than lesbians, contradicting himself Besen denied all this.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen discounted the widespread tolerance and even promotion of pedophilia among leading homosexuals and organizations. For example, Besen said that only the most fringe homosexuals tolerated sex with kids. Bob Enyart asked him if he's ever heard of Harvey Milk, because Damien Martin, the head of New York's homosexual Harvey Milk High School was quoted positively by a leading homosexual publication saying, "No kid has ever been hurt by [oral sex]," Out magazine article by Jesse Green. Bob asked Besen if he had ever heard of Alan Ginsburg, nationally acclaimed homosexual poet who publicly advocated pedophilia, who was annually honored by Boulder, Colorado giving him the key to the city. Enyart asked Besen if he had heard of the popular homosexual magazine, The Advocate, which published Carl Maves asking, "How many gay men, I wonder, would have missed out on a valuable, liberating experience - one that initiated them into their sexuality - if it weren't for so-called molestation?" in an article titled "Getting Over It." (Would Besen remember the "Recruit, Recruit, Recruit" article about kids in The Advocate?) Besen insisted that only the gay fringe tolerated sex with children so Bob asked if he had heard of Alyson Publications of Boston, a leading homosexual publisher. Yes, Besen had heard of the publishers of, among hundreds of titles, the famous kids books, Heather has T.W.O. Mommies, Daddy's Roommate, and Gloria Goes to Gay Pride, but when asked to condemn Alyson for publishing Paedophilia: The Radical Case, with 300 pages of why and how to have sex with even pre-teen boys, Besen himself refused! So, this leader of the homosexual community has never met a homosexual who tolerated the promotion of sex with children, yet if he looked in the mirror, he will find his true self, in rebellion against Jesus Christ who made us male and female. (More on gay tolerance of Pedophilia below.)

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen was asked, "Why do we not allow a male coach in the girls locker room?" The only answer Besen offered is because men are physically larger than women. Enyart rebutted that society does not allow short slender men in a women's sauna, nor female coaches in the boy's showers. Besen refused to give an actual answer because he said he knew where the reasoning would lead. Bob urged Besen not to fear simple truth, and then explained, "We do not assume every adult is a child molester. No. We don't allow men in the girl's locker room because there is a sexual attraction between men and women. So we give teenage girls privacy from men in showers and locker rooms." Enyart then explained the parallel with widespread homosexuality in which it violates the privacy of kids to have male coaches who are attracted to men in the boy's locker room. (Of course, Focus on the Family supports equal rights for homosexuals, so they have the exact same utterly unresolvable problem here as Besen does.) Enyart said that promotion of homosexuality robs men and women of social environments free from sexual tension. Formerly, a woman could go on a lady's retreat without concern for prying eyes in close quarters, but homosexuality imposes sexual tension where there should be none. Besen denies this.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen asserted that the men who claim to be formerly homosexual are part of a fraud. Bob quoted a scathing article in the anti-Christian Denver weekly, Westword, written against Bob Enyart, in which they wrote about a BEL listener that Bob had not known, Greenwood Indiana's David Oeschle, who "was openly gay from 1983 to 1995" when he first saw, "Bob Enyart Live... 'Everything Bob says about homosexuals is right,' Oeschle says. 'It's disgusting... exceedingly promiscuous, and many of them tend to move toward... more vile practices because it's not fulfilling anymore.' Oeschle has since renounced his homosexuality." And as Bob recalled, is now a pro-life, married man with homeschooled children! Enyart asked why Besen felt the need to doubt this man's testimony. Besen answered that we should never try to get someone to deny who they are, deep down, to which Bob replied, "Child molesters." We should try to get them, or anyone who has destructive tendencies, to deny their deepest urges.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen was asked to comment on Enyart's previous interviews with transsexuals, one who was asked about the Titanic, and the other who had spilled a big gulp. In Denver's KNUS studio, Bob asked a man who had a sex-change operation what he would do if, while on a sinking ship, he heard the cry, "Women and children to the lifeboats!" What should he do? Besen chuckled, and then, like the transsexual, he couldn't answer. Enyart presented this as evidence that deep down both of them realize the guy is not a woman, otherwise, the answer would be automatic. The guy who spilled the Big Gulp on the studio table one minute before airtime was dressed as a woman; he had a sex change operation; and New York re-issued to him a woman's drivers license. When he spilled the pop, he then opened his purse, and proceeded to scope the pop into his purse. Pop in purse. Bob Enyart pointed out that no woman alive would scoop pop into her purse. This guy was a guy. Besen denied this.

* Queen of Denial: Wayne Besen didn't realize that Dr. James Dobson had changed his position on homosexuality from affirming the biblical standard of the behavior as criminal, to promoting equal rights for homosexuals. Bob somewhat agreed with this quote from Besen: ""Focus on the Family is going to find that support for their outdated position on gay and lesbian equality is eroding, even among evangelical Christians." While of course Focus would agree that gays are equal to lesbians, sadly, they also agree that legal equality means discarding 3,500 years of Judeo-Christian legal prohibition of homosexual behavior. Focus on the Family's reversal of their former, scriptural position, and promotion of equal rights for homosexuals since their "Amendment 2" campaign in the early 1990s, has done more to promote acceptance of the homosexual agenda among evangelicals than have homosexual activists. Besen did seem to realize this either.

* More on Gay Tolerance of Pedophilia: (continued from above) Wayne Besen admitted that for years the homosexual community welcomed the militant pedophiles at the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) to march in their "gay pride" parades in New York and San Francisco. Enyart explained that homosexuals only severed this vile promotion of NAMBLA in the 1990s after Christian organizations exposed the parades via new media like right wing talk shows. (Perhaps Besen has heard of long-time homosexual activist David Thorstad, founding member of the Coalition for Lesbian and Gay Rights and former president of the New York Gay Activists Alliance who according to The Journal of Homosexuality protested the decision by the March on Washington organizers to exclude pedophiles like NAMBLA.) Bob explained to Besen that Christian outrage moved the Clinton administration to remove NAMBLA from the homosexual association which gave them consulting status at the United Nations, and while Besen continued insisting this was a fringe effort, Enyart added that the University of Massachusetts at Amherst voted to revise its non-discrimination policy to protect "persons whose sexual orientation includes minor children as the sex object." And Besen even referenced the American Psychological Association as a source of human goodness but of course they attempted to advance pedophilia in their journal, The Psychological Bulletin under the title "A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse." (BTW, Time Magazine, ever tolerant of perversion, in For the Love of Kids printed a puff piece on the editor of NAMBLA's journal, with the ACLU's defense, "if it's NAMBLA today, who is it tomorrow?"  According to Time, this New York City teacher, Peter Melzer published an article In Praise of the Penises, on "how to make that special boy feel good."  As to a police report on Melzer's alleged sex with a Filipino boy, Time assured us, there is no hard evidence that he abused this "or any other boy in the U.S.") Responding to Besen denial, Enyart quoted from page 144 of another Alyson publication, The Age Taboo: "Boy-lovers and the lesbians who have young lovers... are not child molesters.  The child abusers are... [the] parents." (And BTW further, Besen has probably also heard of homosexual activist Andy Humm (NYC News, Gay USA, GCN) who brags of his influence over the New York City Council and wrote in the New York Native that, "No one should be denied basic civil rights because of his or her orientation, whether the person be homosexual, heterosexual, transsexual, transvestite, pedophile, sadist..." And Enyart explained to Besen what Out magazine unintentionally admitted in an article titled, The Men From the Boys, when they quoted, without judgment, the founder of a home for runaway youth who claimed that between 14 and 16 years of age, he "probably had sex with well over a thousand people, most of them much older than myself." This man's testimony is not unique, and if he was not lying, that means that this young boy, loose among homosexuals, was molested by hundreds of gay men who just happened to come upon him. Countless boys have been initiated into homosexuality through molestation. Besen denies all this.

* Ends on a Hopeful Note: Wayne Besen answered Bob Enyart's last question with a yes, saying that if he became convinced that the Creator God commanded against homosexuality as destructive, that he would be willing to repent. That degree of humility indicates hope!

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Date Posted -  01/12/2009   -   Date Last Edited - 09/15/2012