Go to: => TOP Page; ROAD MAP; Search Page; What's New? Page; Emmaus Ministries Page
Two articles below... #1 #2
[COMMENT: The Archbishop has had (one hopes) a wonderful change of mind. And the American Psychiatric Assn. is (almost) agreeing -- at least that homosexual persons CAN and have a right to change.
Many people do who try to have intelligent and thoughtful conversations with homosexual supporters, and who are honest researchers, seekers of truth. They find that homosexual persons are seldom able or willing to have an honest search for the truth, wanting to know if they turn out to be wrong. That is true, to be fair, of any person who is more interested in "feeling good" than in relating well -- in which case truth is subverted by the desire to feel good. Truth-seeking tends to be costly and painful.
Another example is Robert Spitzer, MD., the psychiatrist who led the charge in the American Psychiatric Assn. in 1973 to make homosexuality no longer a pathology. In 1999, he talked with some people who had come out of homosexuality when Transformation Christian Ministries, an Exodus affiliate helping people out of homosexuality, was picketing the APA convention in Washington, DC. I had just become director of TCM.
Spitzer became convinced that at least some homosexual persons could make it out of homosexuality, and did a study on the subject, which confirmed his thoughts. His specialty is doing research of that sort, and is well known for his work.
He was treated as a traitor by his former homosexual allies, but has stuck to his scientific guns, and has developed a good relationship with many in the Exodus network of ex-homosexual ministries.
Pray that the ABC will come to see, if he has not already, that there is no evidence whatsoever in support of the homosexual lifestyle, and that honest science stands squarely on the Biblical side of the issue. And he need not back down one inch on his efforts to keep honest dialogue going with homosexual persons, and to further their honest welfare.
It is irrelevant that Rowan Williams is becoming "increasingly conservative", as in the title below. What is relevant is that he (and everyone else in the discussion) become increasingly candid and truthful.
Furthermore, the issue before us is NOT the disintegration of the Anglican Communion or Episcopal Church. It is about the sifting of both by God, forcing us to make an honest choice about whom we are serving -- Him or Baal. The disintegration has long ago taken place because God's people could not stand up for truth and honest discussion of issues. We are not being called to account for that. We Episcopalians have two honorable choices: (1) take back the Episcopal Church; or, (2) leave and form a real Christian body, an honest member of the Body of Christ.
The first can still be done, or at least we can put up a fight for honest discussion which will lead either to our regaining the Episcopal Church, or to our getting kicked out. Either way, we have clarity.
See also Rowan Williams, Archbishop of Canterbury, revealed (no surprise) to be pro-homosexual. E. Fox]
Comments confirm homosexual campaigners' fears Rowan
becoming increasingly conservative
--London Telegraph --- Filed: 27/08/2006 --- Jonathan Wynne-Jones
The archbishop of Canterbury has told homosexuals that they need to change their behaviour if they are to be welcomed into the church, The Sunday Telegraph can reveal.
Rowan Williams has distanced himself from his one-time liberal support of gay relationships and stressed that the tradition and teaching of the Church has in no way been altered by the Anglican Communion's consecration of its first openly homosexual bishop.
The declaration by the archbishop - rebutting the idea that homosexuals should be included in the church unconditionally - marks a significant development in the church's crisis over homosexuals. According to liberal and homosexual campaigners, it confirmed their fears that the archbishop has become increasingly conservative - and sparked accusations that he has performed an "astonishing" U-turn over the homosexual issue.
Liberals who had previously hailed his appointment said they are dismayed that he appears to have turned his back on an agenda that he previously championed.
However, the archbishop's comments have received strong support from traditionalists. The Rev Rod Thomas, a spokesman for the evangelical pressure group Reform, said: "There is no doubt that he is distancing himself from the views that he has previously expressed. He's right to want to see people converted. The fact that he's saying this is a hugely welcome development."
The revelations came in a newspaper interview last week in which the archbishop denied that it was time for the church to accept homosexual relationships, suggesting that it should be welcoming rather than inclusive. "I don't believe inclusion is a value in itself. Welcome is. We don't say 'Come in and we ask no questions'. I do believe conversion means conversion of habits, behaviours, ideas, emotions," he told a Dutch journalist.
"Ethics is not a matter of a set of abstract rules, it is a matter of living the mind of Christ. That applies to sexual ethics."
At the same time he tried to distance himself from a controversial essay he wrote 20 years ago, in which he defended same-sex love. "That was when I was a professor, to stimulate debate," he claimed. "It did not generate much support and a lot of criticism - quite fairly on a number of points."
The archbishop said that he was determined to preserve the unity of the church from being destroyed by the warring factions in the gay crisis. He said he has backed a resolution which says that homosexual practice is incompatible with the Bible.
The Rev Giles Goddard, the chairman of Inclusive Church, a liberal group, said the archbishop's comments revealed an "astonishing" change in his position. He added: "The implication is that there is no justification in scripture for the welcome of lesbian and gay people. It appears that he has moved into the conservative camp."
Chris Bryant, a homosexual Labour MP, said that many people would feel betrayed by the archbishop's comments. "The Church of England wouldn't survive without gay clergy in inner cities.
"People will feel this is a huge betrayal. Rowan has refashioned the Church of England into a narrow-minded, conservative sect."
Liberals, meanwhile challenged the archbishop's attempt to downplay his involvement in the homosexual movement, claiming that he had in fact played a significant role in spearheading moves to make the Anglican Church more tolerant.
In 1989, while professor of divinity at Oxford University, he founded the Institute for the Study of Christianity and Sexuality - a group that set out to combat bigotry towards homosexuals, this newspaper has learnt. At the time it was launched, he said: "The pressure that some church figures put upon people of differing sexual identities is a greater disgrace than anything else seen in the church."
[COMMENT: Combating bigotry against homosexual persons is compatible with telling them the moral, emotional, and medical truth about their behavior. Criticizing their behavior is not attacking their person, no more with homosexual persons than with alcoholics. Homosexuality is a compulsive, lethal addiction. The empirical evidence on that is clear and evident. (See "Evidence Concerning Homosexuality".)
A Lambeth Palace spokesman said of the archbishop's latest comments: "They do not represent a departure from the Christian understanding of sexual relationships."
See also ... Beginning reversal of the APA...
Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury Says
Homosexual Sex Incompatible with Bible
Some conservatives sceptical about Archbishop’s sudden alleged orthodoxy
By Hilary White
CANTERBURY, August 28, 2006 (LifeSiteNews.com) – Rowan Williams, the Anglican Archbishop of Canterbury and titular head of the Worldwide Anglican Communion, said that homosexual activity is contrary to the teachings of Christianity and that homosexuals must change their behaviour if they are to be welcome in the Anglican church.
In an interview last week with a Dutch journalist, Williams, who admitted to knowingly ordaining an active homosexual to the Anglican ministry, said that homosexual persons need to be “welcomed” but their activity could not be “included,” in the normal life of the church.
“I don't believe inclusion is a value in itself. Welcome is. We don't say 'Come in and we ask no questions'. I do believe conversion means conversion of habits, behaviours, ideas, emotions,” Williams said. He said he has backed a resolution which says that homosexual practice is incompatible with the Bible.
The Worldwide Anglican Communion has been in a state of disintegration since the action in 2003 of the US Episcopal Church, (ECUSA), in ordaining as a bishop an active and unrepentant homosexual, Gene Robinson. Robinson has done little to mollify the volatile situation. In April 2005, he outraged Christians the world over when he suggested in a speech that Jesus Christ might have been a homosexual.
In the Dutch newspaper, Nederlands Dagblad, Williams said he has backed a resolution which says that homosexual practice is incompatible with the Bible. Williams said, “Ethics is not a matter of a set of abstract rules, it is a matter of living the mind of Christ. That applies to sexual ethics.”
The comments are being called a surprising turn-around from the cleric’s previous comments and liberal supporters of homosexuality are calling foul. One gay-supporting cleric, Rev Giles Goddard, the chairman of Inclusive Church, told the Telegraph that Williams’ comments were “astonishing. “The implication is that there is no justification in scripture for the welcome of lesbian and gay people. It appears that he has moved into the conservative camp,” Goddard said.
Williams condemned the American Episcopal Church, (ECUSA), for having “pushed the boundaries,” when it ordained Robinson. “It has made a decision that is not the decision of the wider body of Christ,” he said.
Some gay clergy are claiming that it was Williams himself who spearheaded the move, beginning in the 1980’s to accept homosexuality and gay clergy in the Anglican Communion.
In 1989 while a Divinity professor at Oxford, Williams wrote in a paper, “The pressure that some church figures put upon people of differing sexual identities is a greater disgrace than anything else seen in the church.” In that paper, he called for a “revision” of the Christian doctrine on marriage and sexuality to include homosexual relationships.
Despite the howls of protest at his comments from the supporters of homosexuality, some conservatives are sceptical about the Archbishop’s sudden alleged orthodoxy.
David W. Virtue, a conservative Anglican who maintains a website of news about the schism, said that Williams has remained “steadfastly in the middle,” on the issue, much to the disgust of the African Primate, Peter Akinola, who has led the revolt against the hold of the liberal majority in England and the US.
Virtue writes, “Many American orthodox priests and laity I talk to are none too convinced of Dr. Rowan Williams' orthodoxy, and my talks with African Anglican leaders recently confirms that many on that continent do not think that Williams could lead a lost to soul to Christ if his pension depended on it.”
Despite the complaints of Williams’ sudden bout of orthodoxy, his comments reveal that his interest lies mostly in avoiding the schism that is brewing around the world.
He told Nederlands Dagblad, ““I don’t especially want to see the Anglican Church becoming like the Orthodox Church – where in some American cities you see the Greek Orthodox Church, the Russian Orthodox Church and the Romanian Orthodox Church,” he said. “I don’t want to see in the cities of America the American Anglican Church, the Nigerian Anglican Church, the Egyptian Anglican Church and the English Anglican Church on the same street.”
He said his “nightmare” is seeing the various Anglican splinter groups going to court to retain church properties.
Since the start of the crisis, the Church of England confused the issue by agreeing last year to allow homosexual clergy to “marry.” While the Church of England still officially prohibits the ordination of homosexual persons, the move was accompanied by a concession to the ‘conservatives’ that a bishop who allows clerical same-sex “marriage” must extract a promise that the relationship will remain celibate.
Read related LifeSiteNews.com coverage:
Anglican Church of England Will Allow Gay Clergy to “Marry”
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *